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erdoran
Novice
Jul 22, 2007, 6:27 AM
Post #1 of 5
(2158 views)
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Religious vs civil/vow renewal vs wedding
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I had posted last week but can't find the thread (and I DID LOOK HARD) so am continuing it here. I'm 53 and planning a Jewish wedding for fall. We are both Jewish and it means a lot to us to be married in our religion. A jewish wedding (and marriage) is separate and distinct from a civil marriage in that a civil divorce "doesn't count" in Judaism--one still has to go through the process of getting a Jewish divorce, or they are still considered married, and any subsequent marriages are invalid. One also must have witnesses for a Jewish wedding, it is required by Jewish law. there is also precedent in Judaism for a Jewish wedding for couples who are "already married"--for example, one of the wedding planning books I'm reading, which is highly regarded, talks about converts who are already married having a Jewish wedding-and the word "wedding" was used.
Given this lengthy preamble, my fiance and I had a civil ceremony in June, intentionally with no guests, always with the plan to have a Jewish wedding as soon as the rabbi could schedule it. We actually tried to do the Jewish thing first, but the rabbi was on vacation for over a month and couldn't be reached. We chose to do this for financial reasons--he pays a fortune for minimal health insurance, and he has some medical procedures coming up. Between what he will save on health insurance & medical care, we can pay for a wedding--just to give you an idea of the logic behind this. One of his sons also needs extensive dental work which is covered under my plan.
I had first posted asking about a second wedding (because we are divorced, totally unrelated to the civil ceremony) and was shot down hard & fast, and told to call it a "blessing of the marriage". Well, first of all it really isn't--in Judaism we have to have an actual wedding ceremony in order for it to "count"--ie certain blessings said, certain rituals observed.
Having said all that, I never had a wedding with my ex, and I REALLY WANT A REAL WEDDING, no matter what it is called on the invitation. The only gifts I want are my friends' and family's sharing our joy. I want to wear a dress with a chapel-length train and walk down the aisle. I can deal with the veil on the back of my head (although there may be a different Jewish ritual requirement which I may have to observe, but that's a religious thing) and I've already chosen a dress in ivory & champagne. Every guest knows (or will know) that we have had a civil ceremony so we are not being dishonest with anyone.
Is there any way I can word the invitations, any spin I can put on this, so that I can have the Jewish wedding of my dreams minus the gifts if necessary (yes, I've read what to do about that) without committing the etiquette faux pas that evidently my religious wedding seems to be?
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the_admin
Remarriage Forum Moderator
/ Moderator
Jul 22, 2007, 9:22 AM
Post #2 of 5
(2150 views)
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Re: [erdoran] Religious vs civil/vow renewal vs wedding
[In reply to]
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First - we only have one other post from this user so perhaps you posted your question on another forum.
We do not have any experts on the Jewish faith on this panel. sorrry. Speak to your Rabbi and ask for their guidance on how to go about celebrating your marriage within your faith's guidelines.
But, in the etiquette world, what you plan to do is not appropriate. We cannot help you word an invitation for a wedding since you are already married.
I Do - Take Two Site Administrator
(This post was edited by the_admin on Jul 22, 2007, 10:00 AM)
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Etiquette Now
WEDDING ETIQUETTE EXPERT
/ Moderator
Jul 22, 2007, 6:49 PM
Post #3 of 5
(2141 views)
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Re: [erdoran] Religious vs civil/vow renewal vs wedding
[In reply to]
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I completely agree. Plus, from what I have heard from my Jewish friends, it is still considered a faux pas to host a 'wedding like' event when you are already married, especially inviting guests besides just immediate family. But, then again I only know what I have read and what I am told.
Sorry, I cannot advise any way to word this properly.
Rebecca Black, Etiquette Consultant
Etiquette Now
http://www.etiquettenow.com
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erdoran
Novice
Jul 22, 2007, 7:44 PM
Post #4 of 5
(2139 views)
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Re: [Et.byRebecca] Religious vs civil/vow renewal vs wedding
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Thank you both for your answers. Actually, whatever this event is called, we are just inviting immediate family and our closest friends (one of whom did something similar--had a private civil ceremony followed later - I am not sure if same day - by a lovely non-legal ceremony led by two friends) so perhaps the small, intimate guest list is one saving grace, if we decide to do this regardless of etiquette....and of course, we will make certain everyone there knows that we had a civil ceremony, and that the only gift we want is their presence, so there is no question of greed, deception or dishonesty. I intend to speak to each invitee personally as well to let them know that I've been told that it is inappropriate to do this, but sharing my reasons for doing so regardless, and giving them a chance to tell me what they think--with encouragement to do just that, no "yes-women" here!
I just wish I had discovered this board before the civil ceremony, perhaps we would have done things differently (sigh). But I'm a big girl and I will take the consequences of my actions. Thanks again for being so helpful and informative, it's great to have a place to go for HONEST answers! I may not like the answer, but reality is reality, and we all need to know the truth!
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Etiquette Now
WEDDING ETIQUETTE EXPERT
/ Moderator
Jul 22, 2007, 8:30 PM
Post #5 of 5
(2137 views)
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Re: [erdoran] Religious vs civil/vow renewal vs wedding
[In reply to]
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You are a sweetie and I hope the best for you and your husband. We do try hard and appreciate the compliment.
Rebecca Black, Etiquette Consultant
Etiquette Now
http://www.etiquettenow.com
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